(no subject)

[cathybites]

This thread makes me want to spit nails and vinegar, I'm so pissed off. Lemme say it right upfront: if you can't, or REFUSE to, see the implications and problems with saying a black woman needs to be taken down a peg, then I want nothing to do with you. There's a whole history of racism and misogyny wrapped up in that one little phrase. I understand that the OP may not have realized that at first, but to continue defending her use of it is unacceptable and gross.

While I'm at it, I also really resent the idea that this is something that shouldn't be brought up in fandom. um, that kind of thinking is EXACTLY why it should be brought up. I get that maybe it would be better served to have these discussions outside of a kink meme, but don't you dare fucking say that people pointing out racism and sexism are just being wanky bitches and need to STFU.

Comments

[fools-game.livejournal.com]

My favorite is when they say "But we're not talking about her race/gender! We'd say the same for any character in that situation!"

But nobody suggests that Kirk - an insubordinate cadet who almost got kicked out of the Academy for cheating - needs to get to taken down a peg or two for his attitude. Uhura demanded a position that should have been hers due to her competence, and she's uppity. Kirk gets handed a rank far beyond his seniority and wildly outside his abilities for no reason at all, and he's a hero. Don't tell me you're not basing this shit on race and gender, please.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

But nobody suggests that Kirk - an insubordinate cadet who almost got kicked out of the Academy for cheating - needs to get to taken down a peg or two for his attitude

ack, there was an awesome essay I saw recently that was comparing and contrasting all of the things people bitch about Uhura with the males from ST, and when it was side-by-side like that, it was so blatantly obvious to me that there were some skanky race and gender issues at hand. and yet, people still argued about it. >:\

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

she's uppity

Seriously, they should've just been honest and said that from the get-go, eh? "We want this uppity Negress OUT of our sainted angel babyboy buttfucking!!"

AAAAARGH

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

"We want this uppity Negress OUT of our sainted angel babyboy buttfucking!!"

omg Maggie, how is it that I've only JUST NOW found out that there was an ACTUAL PETITION FOR THIS? I just...I don't think I even have the words. Only acronyms such as STFU, GTFO, and DIAF.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

I think it was self-preservation to not know about that dumbass petition until now! Throwing acronyms seems a good way to deal with it, b/c the other way involves guns and blowtorches and entirely too much criminal action.

[gmonkey42.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY.

I didn't see Uhura as being bitchy at all. I guess maybe the bit where she sarcastically calls Kirk "Captain" but that was just awesome, there was nothing wrong with that! Spock had moments that might legitimately be called bitchy but Uhura didn't.

I've hardly seen any of TOS (yet) but could it be that new!Uhura seems different from classic!Uhura because classic!Uhura was never given much to do on the show? Because she was the only black character and it was the 1960s? And now [presumably mostly white] fans are saying it's a bad thing that new!Uhura is more 3-dimensional and proactive? Yikes.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

where she sarcastically calls Kirk "Captain" but that was just awesome

ahahaha EXACTLY. I mean, for pete's sake, Kirk's kind of an annoying fuck and I think just about anyone would get testy with him. The fact that people are making a deal only out of Uhura doing it is just...UGH.


because classic!Uhura was never given much to do on the show?

yah yah, rawles did an awesome post examining that issue over here (http://rawles.livejournal.com/340736.html)

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Ugh ugh ugh. How do they not SEE what they're saying?

but don't you dare fucking say that people pointing out racism and sexism are just being wanky bitches and need to STFU.

I am SO TIRED of this attitude.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

I'm really starting to believe it's willful ignorance at this point, which I am so not okay with.

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

"Hey, uh, your ass is showing."

"I know, doesn't it look faaaaaabulous?"

::punch::

ETA: You saw this awesome post, right?

It'll deflate the rage a little, I promise.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

I hadn't seen it! Thank you so much; it did make me feel a bit better about things.

[affectingly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I really regret that it had to go down on the damn kink meme, but I mean, it's that or let it slide by without comment. NOPE SORRY. We should be put in charge over who gets allowed in fandom and who doesn't.

I shall use my Spock/Uhura icon to SPITE THE ASSHOLES.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

We should be put in charge over who gets allowed in fandom and who doesn't.

SERIOUSLY. I don't understand why we're not.

I have a disturbing lack of ST icons in my life. MUST GET MORE. (of course, it would help if I could find a version of the movie where people's foreheads aren't chopped off. >:\)

[tooright99.livejournal.com]

Yeah, hi. Just wanted to thank you for all of your comments in response to the repost of that prompt/fic. You rock!

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

WTF is up with the mod just freezing the thread?

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

Real-life issues should not interfere with kinky sexytiems!!!

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

I don't know who runs the meme or really much of anything about it aside from lots of scary pornz arrive on my fl via that route (mostly written by Cathy I suspect...isn't anonymous her pseud?), but I feel that the ultimate failure of those threads was the mods' decision to just shut down debate and to call it "wank."

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

I think they really REALLY don't want to deal with racist shenanigans encroaching on their playtime, which, I mean -- suck it up, pal. You make a bigass meme that people want to use to take a black female character "down a peg", you deal with the ugly fallout.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

OBVS.

Which is to say: and this happens in the middle of ibarw? Do they get a double word score for that?

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

pffft. You know I would totally own up to writing noncon incest tentacle genderswap fic.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's the domestic schmoop curtain Spock/Gaila you're hiding.

I just saw someone else using this icon and had a moment of outrage.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT.

ahaha dork.

[geewhiz.livejournal.com]

I understand that the OP may not have realized that at first, but to continue defending her use of it is unacceptable and gross.

That's really the worst part of it for me. How is it so hard to stop saying something when someone explains how and why it is offensive?

Also the whole association of women with the term 'catty' needs to DIAF.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

I just kind of want to hand those people a shovel and yell, "KEEP DIGGING!"

...or possibly smack them upside the head with it. Either one.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

I am so confused by their "point" that Uhura somehow ... molested Spock when she kissed him or whatevertheshit they're trying to say. Is he a hewpwess widdle bunny wabbit? No, he's a MOTHERFUCKING VULCAN. If he did not think it was okay to kiss in the goddamn turbolift, she would have known that!

Nails and vinegar is RIGHT. FEH

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

yeah, I do not get that AT ALL. Because you know if it had been Kirk, just about every one of them would stand up and cheer for Kirk being there for his man. But since it's someone with an icky vagina, and a black one at that, it's wrong and inconsiderate and OMG HOW DARE SHE?!?!!?

[charliehey.livejournal.com]

Aghhhffff. I love the repeated shouts of "Hollywood never gives me any female characters to like! That's why I'm a racist misoynist dickface!"

Funny, I seem to find plenty of female characters to enjoy and love. Hmmm, what's the difference here!?

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

well, OBVIOUSLY you just have low standards. That must be it.

[xterm.livejournal.com]

Honest I am getting sick of pissing on canon pairings period. Yeah I like to play with my boys, but please... it similar to the 'Tonks is a bitch' crap as well...

I think it's just very sad how much these women must hate themselves to have such venom towards successful, intelligent female characters... I also think that they may have soooo 'mary sue-d' themselves as their favourite characters only OP that any other woman (canon or other) paired with that person is a bitch... it's ok for spock to be with kirk because they would be gay and she wouldn't have a chance but if spock likes girls than fangirl can be his only choice... I hope this make a sense...

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

UGH UGH UGH. It really is like that whole lame ass wank. and I think your analysis is spot on. It's probably doubly so with Uhura since she is black, and the majority of those fangirls probably think they can't relate to her. If Spock had hooked up with Chapel or Rand instead, I bet there wouldn't be nearly as much wank.

[xterm.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I would say adding a female POC as the canon pairing to the fangirls imaginary-snuggle-wuggle probably raises the wank-metre in those fangirls by about 200%

the problem is there was no Chapel or Rand in the movie... so unfortunately Uhura gets the brunt of the crap... and honest I had not thought about it... Uhura is great but there are no other females of concern in Reboot!! if they had Chekov why couldn't they have Chapel?? The only other females were giving birth, mothers or squee-buttons... That has unfortunately lowered it a bit for me...

[rivers-bend.livejournal.com]

WHAT THE FUCKING HELL. I can't believe that if a male character had insisted he be given the posting he wanted (and deserved based on his skills and hard work), and that he not be a victim of discrimination based on relationship, the anon would have even NOTICED. Was Bones 'uppity' because he stole drugs and used tricks and subterfuge to get his boyfriend BFF on board? Or was he just asserting his right as a man to get whatever the hell he wanted?

HOW CAN THEY NOT SEE THE HYPOCRISY?

Uhura is brilliant, talented, educated, dedicated to her work, independent, opinionated, expressive, caring, sexy, quick-thinking, self-aware and assured, loving, stubborn... in short, a well-rounded PERSON. Every one of those things is a quality I look for in women as well as men.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

HOW CAN THEY NOT SEE THE HYPOCRISY?

DUH. Don't you know that white cock has to answer to no one?

[rivers-bend.livejournal.com]

how could I have forgotten something so obvious.

[tooright99.livejournal.com]

Not to make you even more mad, but it does get worse.

http://community.livejournal.com/st_xi_kink/7804.html?thread=20081788#t20081788

My favorite part is, "I hate the word 'misogynist', and I'm pretty sure everyone else does too."

*facepalm*

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

oh, for FUCK'S SAKE. She couldn't have just posted the damn thing and left it alone?

[tooright99.livejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY.

[maschalismos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, shit like this is why I've just stayed out of pretty much all fandoms at this point. I just, they see NOTHING WRONG with saying a black woman needing to be taken down a peg and their seeing nothing wrong does not surprise me at all. My standards are so low for things like this anymore, I've pretty much stopped dealing with folks that don't get it.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

I really wish some of those people weren't anonymous so I would know who to stay the fuck away from.

[maschalismos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I pretty much use fail threads like that as a way to mass add to my ban_set list.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, guys, Amber and I are trolling them.

[maschalismos.livejournal.com]

lolz, of course you are. ♥ bb.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

My name is attached.

[maschalismos.livejournal.com]

This somehow makes it even better.

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

Dude.

I came at all of this way late (three cheers for travel) but. Seriously. People's racism and misogyny just stuns me. Actually, no it doesn't. Their sheer bloody minded determination to be racist and misogynist against logic and common sense does, though.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

yeah, I mean, the original comment was bad enough, but it was when people started defending and acting like bigoted asses that I lost it. FEH.

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

I think that we can all say bloody stupid offensive things on occasion. The trick is to realise that you've been a dick, and apologise and move on. Some people have the being a dick bit down, but don't get the next step.